| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
To Engineer, I thank you for your insight. There is a lot of things to consider and distribution is one of them in the music industry. However, I don't think this one factor negates the lack of promotion that black female jazz vocalist receive from the music industry when compared to popular vocalists Krall and Monheit. I do realize that a vocalist must sell (x) number of units , CDs in order to offset all of the expenses she/he must bear when performing. Even a major jazz artist who may get say $50,000 for a festival gig, by the time she/he pays expenses out of that, may see $10,000 of that amount. Yes these are the facts of business. Same as running a store or other business, but I think we digress from the main issue of the post which is the lack of marketing and promoting and exposure to the general public of minority female jazz vocalist by the music industry in today's time.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
Also I might add, that no matter how readily available an artist's music is (distributed) if that artists isn't advertised, (marketed, promoted, hyped) the public won't just go out and buy that product. Same as buying any other product. We buy what we have been introduced to, what we have seen or heard (TV). If artists, aren't marketed properly, they can have all the distribution in the world, but what good is it, if no one has really heard/seen them? The lack of distribution of artists is just one of many factors that compound the problem of lack of exposure of black female jazz vocalists.
|
|||
Tehrin |
Racism in the Music Industry. | ||
|
To Max:The NAACP is working on this problem on all levels of the industry. You were right on point,in your response to ENGINEER. Everything he says is,in fact,correct. However,distribution,and marketing work hand,in hand...it's a delicate balance. If your marketing is tight,then your distribution prospers.There are several black artists',who get signed to a major label...and the promise of distribution gets fulfilled,however,they don't get as vigorously marketed as their white counterparts who,in a great many cases,get signed by the same label,afterwards. Also,management does play a huge part in your success,but the problem is,management has to damn near,pull teeth(with no novacaine),just to get black artists'(especially black female jazz artists') the proper marketing,wherein white artists don't have as much of a problem.So what it comes down to for us is 1;Education about the business,and 2;Vigorous management...especially on the marketing tip.Also,we need the proper protection. If your marketing isn't happening,then your distribution doesn't amount to a hill of beans!
|
|||
philly |
Racism | ||
|
Yes the sisters have it bad,but I am a male black singer and we really get the short in of the stick.Out side of Kevin Mahogany and Jimmy Scott very few of us make it past the jam session.Which is open mic and no loot at all.For those who do not know.
|
|||
Lala Boca |
. | ||
|
Remember the importance of aggressive management. Both Jane & Diana have had Mary Ann Topper of Jazz Tree Management as their go-getter. Also, if you look at her other past clients: Joshua Redman, Christian McBride, etc. - you will see a pattern. She promoted and created publicity for these youngish, good-looking, talents. People like to see beautiful people making music, and I think this is as much of the issue as race. Well, maybe not as much - but let's face it. Sex sells! Sex is used to promote toothpaste, why not jazz?!
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
True, yes sex sells , So since the new face of jazz is both monheit and krall is that saying that black faces in female jazz vocal music aren't sexy enough to sell the music? Only white beautiful faces in female jazz vocal music are the marketable ones to sell the music? Are there no black female jazz vocalist who are sexy and CAN sing the musicgood enough to warrant Mary ann Topper's attention. Remember Joshua Redman and Christian McBride are not female jazz vocalist. This Still reeks of racism to me if you are promoting white beauty over black beauty!! And saying that white beauty is more marketable. And believe me there are plenty of beautiful black female jazz vocalist who can sing the jazz music in the spirit of the greats!!! Why aren't they getting marketed?? Are they not beautiful enough? who sets the standards? Who decides who is marketable enough to be promoted to the general public? It ain't the black folks.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
JAZZ VOCAL | ||
|
HERE A FRENCH MAN SPEAKING .
JAZZ IN THE US SUCK, EVEN THE BLACK FOLX DON T GO TO THE CONCERT TO SUPPORT THEYRE HERITAGE , IT IS MOSLY WHITE. NOW DIANA KRALL AND MONHEIT , THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO JAZZ FOREVER , DIANA KRALL IN FRANCE DOES NOT IMPRESS ANYBODY , IN FACT SHE DOES NOT TOUR THAT MUCH , PEOPLE KNOW THAT SHE IS A GOOD LOUNGE SINGER , ALL THE REST IS MARKETTING AND A LOT OF MONEY SPEND ON PRESS BY UNIVERSAL . MONHEIT CUTE TOO .... DEE DEE BRIDGEWATER , NOW WE ARE TALKING . I GUESS THE ONLY SURVIVOR , THE ONLY REAL ENTERTAINER AROUND , BOY IF SHE WAS WHITE !!!!! |
|||
Unregistered(d) |
racism and patriotism | ||
|
Max - I agree with most of the comments you've made. Many great jazz vocalists who are black have not had the financial backing that Diana Krall and Jane Monheit have had. It is frustrating that artists like you've mentioned, such as Dee Dee Bridgewater, Carla Cook, Dianne Reeves, Nancy Wilson are getting less exposure than Krall and Monheit. Might I note that the same manager for Krall is managing Monheit now, since Krall left that manager. I think record companies are playing it safe, going with someone who has a good manager, instead of what should be the other way around, finding a good artist and helping that artist connect with a good manager.
Let me also say, that besides racism, it seems there is a certain lack of knowledge of what a good vocalist is nowadays. If this is any comfort to you, I want to add that good white vocalists are not being promoted properly either. One who was recently featured in Jazziz magazine is Joan Bender. In my opinion she is not only more attractive than Krall or Monheit, but she sings ten times better. Why a record company hasn't signed her up is a mystery to me. Bender has the jazz chops, and cross-over appeal because she is hot. Another good singer who is white is Norah Jones, who was picked up by Blue Note. It will be interesting to see if Blue Note spends more money promoting Jones (a white singer) than other singers on their label, namely Dianne Reeves or Cassandra Wilson. Also, another observation, in light of this WTC incident and renewed patriotism, is that I've noticed the jazz singers promoted heavily in America by the Verve label tend to be from other countries. Take Diana Krall. She is from Canada. And Claudia Acuna. She is from South America. Not that a jazz singers HAVE to be American to receive a big promotional budget, but when great American jazz vocalists like Abbey Lincoln and Dee Dee Bridgewater are stuck on French divisions of Verve (the company that Krall and Acuna are on), there is something wrong here. Abbey Lincoln is a legend, our Billie Holiday of this century. And Dee Dee Bridgewater is superb. She should be a household name just as much as Diana Krall. |
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Jazz vocalist | ||
|
This is a really interesting thread but I think the point might be is where is the jazz audience? Who's buying the CDs, who's going to the concerts? Where is the black youth audience? They aren't listening to jazz. That is sad. The big evil here is corporate profits. Look at the hip-hop labels. Maken millions. I think the problem is much broader than racism. It has to do with culture and greed.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism | ||
|
Lynn- Absolutely. Kids off the street can scream into a recorder, you can't understand a word they say, yet the first recording sells over a million copies. A well rounded performer, with a high degree of preparation and education, may sell less than 50,000 copies. Does the American Music Awards and Grammy association encourage this sort of thing?
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
jazz future | ||
|
This article in Jazziz basically says it all....
Generation X, Generation Jazz When Im not toiling here at JAZZIZ as assistant editor Im stuck doing the real work while the senior editors jet off on junkets, er, fact-finding missions Im the adviser for the student newspaper at Florida Atlantic University in balmy Boca Raton. Nothing quite compares to turning 35 and being asked what its like to be so old. But then I remember that most of my students are younger than MTV and have never held an LP in their pink little fingers. What they know about jazz wouldnt fill one of their Altoids tins. For instance: Jennifer Sorentrue, the 23-year-old editor and a straight-A student, only recognized one jazz act as of last year. That was Ella Fitzgerald. Its the music my mom listened to. That was my whole idea of jazz, she recalls. I knew she was a woman, and I think I knew she was black. I didnt know she was fat. Then Sorentrue enrolled in FAUs only jazz-appreciation class. When I started, I thought Miles Davis was funk. But now I can recite his history, she says. Its probably one of the only classes at FAU where I still remember anything. She learned a lot (I have a much better appreciation of the evolution of jazz into rock n roll), but shes not yet a jazz consumer. Sometimes when Im in the car, Ill listen to smooth jazz on the radio, Sorentrue admits, but no, I havent downloaded anything yet. Two things concerns me here. First, Sorentrue and her friends will never buy a jazz CD because they dont buy any CDs. The FAU newsroom is cluttered with home-burned discs with labels like, Jens Mix, Dans Mix, and Jasons Mix. Second, this annual education issue of JAZZIZ celebrates schools that teach their students to play jazz. But after they graduate, who are they going to play for? Not Sorentrues crowd, apparently. If I dont get myself fired from JAZZIZ (I have a dubious employment record), Ive often wondered if Ill get laid off when all of its readers die off. Deeper intellects than mine are pondering how to save jazz from becoming as obsolete as the wax masters it was first recorded on. (Side note: A freshman once asked me if her friend was pulling her leg. Did vinyl records really have two sides?) But even an office-bound assistant editor like myself knows that the answer or enemy isnt Ken Burns. Or Wynton Marsalis. No, the future depends upon obscure guys with names like Dan Salmasian. Burns thinks hes surveying the jazz scene from high above it, while Marsalis thinks hes down in the trenches. But Salmasian is a mile behind enemy lines. See what I mean on page 44. Michael Koretzky Oct. 2001 |
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in Jazz | ||
|
This is an excellent discussion, I worry that it's veering away from the original topic. Like most "problems", there are many causes. Yes everything mentioned thus far contributes: Overt racism (in our general society & in the music industry),Sexism (and what "sells"), who "buys"jazz i.e. the real market for it,who supports the concerts etc. as well as management, promotion , distribution etc.Also like most ills of society (like war or poverty) there is no ONE answer or one approach. I like to think of things in a "quasi-military" fashion- when tackling a problem , I'm not going to stop with one attack from an obvious point where the enemy could be waiting, but would attack from several different directions.I think the "war' of racism in the industry needs to also be approached from several directions.Education is one (and I've learned from this forum already)and I'd say the most important one.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racisim in Jazz | ||
|
I don't think I came to a conclusion. 1st.Education-aknowledge the problem, educate others(as we're doing), and continue educating ourselves: check out some of those other worthy artists(more to add to the bunch:Nnenna Freelon,Ghanniyah Green,Allan Harris)BUY THEIR RECORDS,support their concerts.Also we can educate the labels (when & where we can. A lot can happen from a letter sent to the company-or 100 letters).Start to learn more about the industry- so we can understand why they will promote a young, pretty white girl singer over an equally talented blk one (it's partly racism, but it's mostly dollars$$).Teach the next generation, it's not enough to complain about their lack of knowledge- tell'em, play something for 'em, I really think that's why jazz is in the sate it's in: More people don't understand it!
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism | ||
|
Monheit is represented by th William Morris Agency of Beverly Hills ,CA.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
To Lyn and to Brat, you both have a valid point, I just got back from the IAJE in Long Beach and I saw a handful of blacks there (students in elementary, high school and college) as opposed to a great many white students. That just tore at my heart to see that.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism | ||
|
Max-- Catch on? They were all out listening to and buying Rap, Hip Hop, and other garbage!!!
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
If only there were good public school music programs that minority students could take advantage of. Unfortunately when funding is cut in schools, the arts prorgrams are the first to go. And unless students have parents or some sort of mentor who can point them in the direction of studying music as opposed to listening to the MTV and other garbage, they just don't get exposed. There are no easy answers I agree. Back in the day when I was growing up, we idolized Duke Ellington, nowadays kids idolize some rap star. The mass media such as MTV don't really promote young peoplestudying the music as an art and as a craft. If they made it hip to be an accomplished art, then perhaps more kids would be interested. I wish jazz artists had video as pop stars do.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism | ||
|
Max-- Hrer in the east we have large music department in th public schools, and many heavy duty jazz people teach in them to supplement their gigs. Many of the teachers play in the pit bands of Broadwy shows.When you try to interest them in jazz, they ask "Show Me The Money". You can be a rap artist one day, and appear in the movies or television shows in a few weeks. eg:Ice-Tea on Law And Order ,etc.!!!!
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
Racism in todays Jazz Vocal music/music in general | ||
|
That is why I wish the powers that be, the mass media, the conglomerates, the people who dictate to the public what is hip would be intelligent enough to elevate the music of jazz. If only jazz artists were treated as rap stars. If only jazz artist had videos. It is a catch 22, they say jazz doesn't sell, but then they and by "they" I mean the "powers in the music industry", don't invest in the art the same way they do in rap music, a music that perpetuates ignorance and continues to portray blacks as gangsters and demoralize women. I bet if jazz were back in vogue, then the industry would jump on the bandwagon after the fact. When I was growing up and also in my Dad's time, we wanted to be like the musicians, we didn't have television, only radio so Hampton, Ellington, Armstrong and later Davis, Diz, Bird were our stars. Now with t.v. the music has gone down. As you say, nobody wants to invest the time and discipline to be a musician. Because it is considered a "historical music". Somehow the IAJE and others in education have got to come together in some sort of musical summit to convince the industry and to do something to make this music assessible to young minority kids. It is a shame that we have given our music away and we are the creators of that music. They had a Sisters in Jazz band at the IAJE and not one "Sister" in the band, and these were girls from all over the world competing. I don't have the answers but it is a shame that we don't support our music. Who knows maybe there is a deliberate attempt to downplay the intelligent contributions that minorities have made to music. It is good that the young singer Alicia Keyes, who plays piano is getting acclaim, but we need to go a step more. If we can convince young minorities to invest in music, instead of the sex and violence and gangster that is portrayed on Tv. we would raise up an intelligent generation of youngsters. But when you see the heroes that are shown on TV nowadays, and getting paid to continue to show negative images of blacks, then something tells me that somewhere, something insidious but deliberate is going on with the message that the "industry" wants to continue putting out about minorities.
|
|||
Unregistered(d) |
to philly | ||
|
name me the black singers in Philly...there are great ones and they work....Denise King, Rosella Clemmons Washington, PC the 3rd(now in NYC), Ken Sheppard...Jon Lucean(sp) from Philly...the fact is...Philly doesnt support Jazz period....Zanzibar Blue(a black owned club)...the nicest Jazz club in Philly is hated by the Black Jazz Musicians in Philly..fact...ask any of them...Byron Landham, Orrin Evans etc...they call it a plantation vibe...Ortliebs, great instrumental jazz mostly Black doesnt have many singers except for the Jam sessions...Chris' doesnt have many singers at all...the Philadelphia clef club has only black singers...so I don't know what you are talking about...
|
|||